| Author | Message | ||
     renie longfellow (Renie) |
Bill.....don't always agree with you but LOVE you sigh offs. renie the old and tired. | ||
| Bill Sorenson (Billsorensen) |
Bill wrote in answer to my question to define terms: Actually "Bible Adventism" was the title of a book by James White. I just checked the Loma Linda library and there is no listing for such a book by James White, are you sure? I have a lot of books in my archives (basement) and will have to see if I can find it. Read it years ago. I'll see if I can find it. Sorensen the organized librarian (not) | ||
| Bill Sorenson (Billsorensen) |
Bill.....don't always agree with you but LOVE you sigh offs. renie the old and tired. That's the spirit, Renie.... works for me. Sorensen gotta go now, alias..."mean sprited Brinsmead" (and other less flattering names) | ||
| Wayne E. Willey (Pwwilley) |
Bill Sorenson wrote, "'Bible Adventism' was the title of a book by James White". "Bible Adventism" was the title of a book by James White which was published in a limited edition of 300 copies in 1887 by the SDA Publishing House in Battle Creek. A second printing of 300 copies was published in 1889? (the front page of the copy in the Adventist Pioneer Library says 1989). I believe this James White material may have been published initially in the "Biblical Institute" - a book of lectures by James White and Uriah Smith which was published by Pacific Press. Clearly, this was not new material which had just been written by James White (who died in 1881!). Southern Publishing Association published a "reprint" of the "Bible Adventism" book in the 1970s. I have a copy of the SPA reprint in my library. | ||
| Bill Sorenson (Billsorensen) |
Southern Publishing Association published a "reprint" of the "Bible Adventism" book in the 1970s. I have a copy of the SPA reprint in my library. Exactly.....found mine. Published as a part of the "Heritage Library" in 1972. Sorensen, I knew I could find it eventually | ||
| Ron Corson (Roca88) |
Well obviously I am not going to find a copy of this book where I am so maybe you can tell me what the definition of Biblical Adventism is. | ||
| Jodi Thiessen (Jodi) |
Bill, you say Daniel speaks of an investigative judgment that begins in 1844. No, he does not. He speaks of the "cleansing of the sanctuary" which the Jews celebrate to this day, as they did even in Jesus' time. It is that eight-day festival celebrated every year in December...in Jesus' day it was called the Feast of Dedication, in which they celebrated the cleansing of the sanctuary after its desecration by Antiochus Epiphanes. Jesus obviously recognized it as that, because He too observed this festival. It is now called Hanukkah. It has nothing to do with the year 1844...it's too bad the Millerites were not better students of the Bible and of Jewish History....it could have saved them a GREAT DISAPPOINTMENT! There is absolutely nothing in the book of Daniel that has anything to do with an investigative judgment beginning in 1844... And Tom, Jesus didn't reform Judaism. He established the Church. Many converted from the religion of Israel to Christianity, many did not. In fact, in Paul's time there was a grave danger that Jewish converts to Christianity were trying to make Christianity nothing more than an extension of Judaism which Paul fiercly fought against and even traveled to Jerusalem, the center of Judaism, to settle the issue with the church leaders. A quick read trhough Acts 15 and Galations 2 will confirm that Christianity was not intended to be an extension of and should not be confused with the religion of Judaism. | ||
| Wayne E. Willey (Pwwilley) |
Jodi Thiessen wrote, "There is absolutely nothing in the book of Daniel that has anything to do with an investigative judgment beginning in 1844..." I would take that statement even further: There is nothing in the whole Bible which teaches an investigative judgment beginning in 1844. Only the biblically-illiterate and theologically-illiterate founders of the Seventh-day Adventist denomination have "discovered" such a teaching in the Bible. This unbiblical doctrine of the investigative judgement would have been "buried" quietly many years ago if Ellen White had not copied and endorsed the questionable interpretations of ORL Crosier and those who copied Crosier's views (even including Crosier's mistakes of fact about the OT sanctuary service). Now the SDA denomination finds itself in a "no-win" situation on the investigative judgement doctrine. The SDA denomination cannot repudiate the doctrine of the investigative judgement without repudiating the writings of Ellen White on the subject. The SDA denomination cannot repudiate any of the writings of Ellen White because SDAs have made these writings "the indentifying mark of the remnant church" to distinguish themselves from almost 400 other sabbath-keeping denominations or organizations (according to the Directory of Sabbath-Observing Groups published by the Bible Sabbath Association - http://www.biblesabbath.org). | ||
| Tom Norris (Tnorris) |
Jodi Thiessen said on Wednesday, February 13, 2002: "All is CONFUSION indeed! So which is it, James?" The "No IJ" position of 1850 or the Pro-IJ position in 1857? You are sharp to note this distinction. However, guess what, the Third Angel's Message had already been established by this time. And that Pillar (#6) was the Sabbath, NOT the IJ. In addition, the Pillar of the Heavenly Sanctuary, which is located in the number 5 position, had already been erected BEFORE the Sabbath. So whatever details were being discussing about this earlier Sanctuary Pillar, it was still too late to go back and change a Pillar from the past. This needs to be clearly understood. The Heavenly Sanctuary Pillar is resting on the "second platform," which supports the Third Angel's message. Once the Third is established, no one can go back and change the historical structure or the meaning of that Pillar. Regardless, the fact of the matter is that the SDA Movement was all about the Sabbath. Health Reform was added, but the Sabbath was the primary doctrine by far. The IJ was never a Pillar, although it has certainly morphed into a false and delusional one. | ||
| Jodi Thiessen (Jodi) |
And so I take it your position, Tom, is that when James began to search for more and greater light, He was led right back into darkness? You see, I suspect they were walking in darkness all along...no second coming in 1844, no IJ, no call for them to give the 3 angel's messages, no "remnant church" with the "spirit of prophecy"...and since they were just stumbling around in the darkness with veils over their faces, it is no wonder that they stumbled over the CORNERSTONE and fell right back into the LAW... Maybe if they would have had proper "lighting" in their house...you might want to consider that if you ever get the REMODELING going... |
