| Author | Message | ||
     J. R. Layman (Daneanderthal) Moderator Username: Daneanderthal Post Number: 1101 Registered: 1-2002 |
I believe the line could also be written as follows, and probably would be MORE true then as originally written! ""A big problem of Ellen's supporters and the denomination, is that they have failed to recognize the difference between Ellen White THE PROPHET and Ellen White THE AUTHOR. Neither have they recognized the difference between Ellen White THE PROPHET and Ellen White the woman, wife, mother, and friend...."" If the Church e.g. folks like Ulrike and Pastor Larry would MAKE that distinction......EGW might have been more palatable to some of us in our youth. The FACT....that in my formative years, Saint Ellen was presented as ANYTHING being issued from her lips was "inspired" and written down in that great big red book, titled, "Ellen G. White SAYS" And frankly I don't think much has changed....except some lip service, pretending that there was a differenced between her "prophet" mantle and her "she was an everyday person" mantle. The point is Ulrike, your still pandering that "JESUIT" line and label....simply because someone doesn't agree with you that Saint Ellen was a Prophet. THAT makes you a NUTCASE! Sorta funny, that when someone finds something so ludicrous in Ellen's writings (e.g. burning coal causing volcano’s----rings around Saturn---etc), that ONLY THEN do the EGW defenders finally ADMIT that she might have written some things outside the box of her "inspiration!" The major problem with that admission, is all those “I WAS SHOWN” preceding her emanations! In Ellen G. White speak…..”I WAS SHOWN” is a claim of DEVINE INSPIRATION FROM HER “GUIDE!” And the claim that she spoke outside the box of her “inspiration” simply doesn’t work……when she attempts to puff up her own importance as a so called “Prophet.” by claiming “I WAS SHOWN.” Don't get mad, get even! | ||
| J. R. Layman (Daneanderthal) Moderator Username: Daneanderthal Post Number: 1102 Registered: 1-2002 |
BURP Excuse me Ulrike....I meant "Messenger" and not "prophet" in the above. Saint Ellen never claimed she was a "prophet," only a "messenger". It was the church and those like you who attempt to make her into a "Prophet!" Don't get mad, get even! | ||
| U.Unruh (Ulrike) member Username: Ulrike Post Number: 1172 Registered: 2-2002 |
Just remember J.R. -- you've called me a "witch" just because I don't agree with you-- and a few other terms. A witch riding a broom in church, or something like that. Now you call me a "nutcase". You've done MUCH MORE then me as far as "name calling". In fact I think you'd be hard pressed to find any direct "name calling" in any of my posts. I did NOT call you a Jesuit. I don't care whether you call EGW a prophet or not-- that's according to your convictions. However, I do believe that those who set themselves up to bash our message which EGW confirms, and do this by slandering her, are following the Jesuit agenda. Yes, I remember when I first got a computer and innocently entered the supposed Adventist forums. I was totally unprepared for what I met. Nothing I said was accepted, it was all ridiculed and I was told how ignorant and "parrot" like I was for believing that "old line". Then one day I did a search and came upon a "Catholic Defenders of the Faith" site which REALLY was put up by Catholics with real Jesuit input. On that site was a large section against Seventh-day Adventists. Now can you imagine my utter surprise to see links to articles on that website written by THE VERY PEOPLE who were arguing with me on the ADVENTIST FORUMS... Rolland, Gary, Janet, Pat etc. Oh, yes, I mentioned it on the Adventist Issues forum and they called me every name in the book.. liar, deceiver, and worse. I gave them the URL, and for a while they had nothing more to say, then came back with, "they had no control over who linked up with their webpages." However, it was pretty plain to me WHO CONSIDERED THEM as their allies in the "fight against Adventists." Since then the names have disappeared from that website-- but the substance of their "message" is still there. They were following the Jesuit agenda, there's no doubt in my mind. | ||
| J. R. Layman (Daneanderthal) Moderator Username: Daneanderthal Post Number: 1104 Registered: 1-2002 |
If it's "slander" to openly quote Ellen's own letter to her daughter-in-law, asking Mary to get her some OYSTERS. So be it! If it's "slander" to point out where Ellen says that burning coal caused volcano’s. So be it. If it's "slander" to show where she was WRONG on the Rings around Saturn......so be it. Frankly, I have pity on any dear TSDA soul who attempts to defend EGW, in light of FACTUAL SCIENTIFIC evidence to the contrary to her "I was showns". FWIW.....I cannot recall calling you a "witch". Not saying I didn't, just can't recall it, and that's not normally my style.....I'm more prone to call someone a "#itch"  . But there is no doubt in any anyone’s mind, who remembers Teddy Mac's entry onto the computer forum scene, and your faithful Ditto's of everything he said, when he accused this forum, and aToday, previously of being the spawn of a JESUIT Conspiracy! Don't get mad, get even! | ||
| U.Unruh (Ulrike) member Username: Ulrike Post Number: 1173 Registered: 2-2002 |
Elain wrote: "As for the many things that she wrote that ARE NOT in the Bible, you should do a little research on that before you speak with such confidence, i.e, while she agreed with Sylvester Graham on the benefit of whole wheat flour in crackers (graham crackers), she also wrote _________________ 1. What did EGW write about phrenology:
Every quote I found on that subject shows that she considered phrenology a dangerous thing. _________________ 2.WIGS I had a full wig once-- it was fine in cool weather, but on warm days it always gave me headaches. No more wigs for me. Besides modern wigs are light and airy, can you imagine the heat produced by wearing an old fashioned heavy wig? ________________ 3. This one of course is always presented. I wonder why people are so against this warning? Masturbation usually lends itself to sexual excess. Even non-Adventist Christians see the dangers of it. It's quite interesting to do a bit of research on the internet. One comes up with things like:
--------------- I won't be that swift to discredit the warnings from EGW on these things!! One is far safer to pay them heed. Like all of her health messages, I believe they were given because God has our best health in mind. | ||
| U.Unruh (Ulrike) member Username: Ulrike Post Number: 1174 Registered: 2-2002 |
JR WROTE: If it's "slander" to openly quote Ellen's own letter to her daughter-in-law, asking Mary to get her some OYSTERS. So be it! _________ These are NOT salvation issues. The oysters were part of her HUMAN side. Eating a few oysters could not be any worse than a Biblical prophet stealing his friend's wife and killing his friend to cover it up. The burning coal-- something is burning down there to cause the volcano's -- and that something I do not believe was causing volcano's before the flood messed up the earth's foundations. But then you probably don't even believe the biblical accounts of a seven day creation and the world wide flood etc. etc. (Or do you?) The point is that God WILL BRING UP fire from the depths of the earth and this planet as it now stands will be destroyed by fire, before God creates all things new. The details of what's burning down there, is not that important. You know that people have used the "scientific" approch of disproving EGW just as effectively to disprove the whole Bible in the minds of those with little faith-- Scientificly "how it was done" messages are not the messages which God gave through any prophet. Besides I don't think the scientists have the "final answer" on those things either. The universe of heaven will reveal many mysteries that are way beyond any human scientific thinking of today. When Christ comes will He find FAITH upon this earth? | ||
| Sirje Walkowiak (Sirje) member Username: Sirje Post Number: 1618 Registered: 2-2002 |
"When Christ comes will He find FAITH upon this earth?" Are you saying, Ulrike, that Jesus was here referring to Ellen White? The question is what kind of faith and in what? Faith is not gullability. FAITH IS NOT UNREASONABLE. Faith is not multiplied in direct proportion to the unbelievability of the proposition. Faith kicks in after you have responded to "Come, let us reason together." I think Elaine is right, faith can't operate where there is no doubt. | ||
| Jodi Thiessen (Jodi) Moderator Username: Jodi Post Number: 1493 Registered: 2-2002 |
Over-ejaculation drains out the brain and spinal fluids I will refrain from commenting...except to say that quote does confirm the suspicion I have always had concerning some mens' brains! ROFL!!! | ||
| Robert Dale Lackey (Boblackey) member Username: Boblackey Post Number: 723 Registered: 2-2002 |
Sirje and Ulrike. LeRoy Froom, Roy Anderson, H. M. S. Richards, Sr. and Toby Unruh ALL assured Walter Martin and Donald Barnhouse that belief in Ellen White as a prophet is NOT a salvational issue. All that one needs to know about salvation is in the Bible and if one is in harmony with the Bibical presentation of salvation through Jesus Christ, they are saved. Probably the best place to read the truth abou salvation, if you don't want to take time to study the entire NT, is Paul's espistle to the Romans. Indeed, reading Martin Luther's commentary on Paul's espistle to the Romans is how John Wesley understood and accepted the "true" gosple. But according to Tom Norris, Wesley never compltely got rid of a leaning toward "legalism". As a Christian does one have to believe in the NT to be saved? Certainly to a large extent the answer is "yes". Does one have to accept the writings of Ellen White as inspired from God? Certianly the answer is "no". Indeed Questions on Doctrine points this out very clearly and even has an Ellen White quote the says even SDA's who no longer accept EGW and her writings are NOT to be removed from the church. J. R. Ellen White didn't have a vision about how many rings are around Saturn. As a matter of fact, just last month, the ring count went up again when a spaceship flew into the rings and took up close pictures. The rings around Saturn has grown from just three from the 19th century to HUNDREDS. EGW had a vision about the "moons". It was suppose to be a vision which happened to convince Captain Joseph Bates that EGW was the real mccoy. Bates was a student of astronomy and when he heard EGW in vision talking about seeing a number of moons going around a planet, Bates said she was talking about one of the planets. When EGW came out of vision, she said she had NO knowledge about astromony so the Lord must have shown her how many moons were around that particular planet. Right now I can't remember if it was Jupiter or Saturan. Of course the moon count of both of those planets is now far, far greater in number then what 19th century astronomers thought. Also EGW saw tall and majectic people on Jupiter. People who had never fell into sin. Today almost everybody, especially scientists and SDA skeptics such as Joe Allen, Glen Davidson and Dennis Hokema laugh at that one. The orthodox scientific postion is there is NO life on Jupiter and NEVER has been. Joe Allen seems to really roll in the floor over EGW's "volcanos are caused by coal fires" postion. Yes today we know that molten lava builds pressure and pushes up the mountain that contains the volcano and when it can'T stand the pressure anymore, BOOM!!!! Masturbation is harmless according to ALL scientific and medical authorities I've read. But they are no talking about excessive masturbation. They are talking about a couple of times a week to once a day. Actually it is good for men to have regular ejaculations. And once a day is considerd normal and healthy. But some Christians feel masturbation is not a good way to maintain that kind of health. Not because it is harmful physically, but because one's mind can be cast onto things that are not good for a Christian. | ||
| Robert Dale Lackey (Boblackey) member Username: Boblackey Post Number: 724 Registered: 2-2002 |
Yes Jodi you are probably right about most of us men. I have finally figured out when I'm over doing it. When I'm over doing it, I go from being 6-2 to 5-8 and my hat covers my eyes so I can't wear it and drive. Also when I'm over doing it, I can only count to ten. When I am not, I can count to 50. Guess it is a good thing I don't wear a wig too. Somedays I imagine I would just pass out. Back to EGW. I think the area where one needs to stay with EGW is theology. Do you find her theology in harmony with the Bible? Some in the SDA church don't. Here on this forum, Tom Norris, Dennis Hokema, Elaine Nelson and Ron Carson would be some who actually go to the SDA church and don't. Desmond Ford finds his understanding of the Bible to be better then EGW. But he was fired and even our very own Jodi was booted from her SDA church partly due to rejection of some of EGW's theology. (I've always found it fascinating that Jodi, way out in California, got the boot, while Tom Norris is far more vocal and is right there at the Capitol SDA church in Washington, D. C. and even Goldstein at SDA headquaters and William Johnnson of the Review know all about him..and Tom is still a member in good standing.) Christians in other denominations, such as Walter Martin and Donald Barnshouse, rejected EGW because she doesn't square with what Scripture teaches. Certainly if those men thought EGW was in complete harmony with the Bible, then I guess they would have thought about accepting her as a prophet. But for most Baptist (Martin) and Presbyterian (Barnhose) scholars and theologians, one would be foolish to expect them to accept EGW for her theology and understanding of the Bible is faulty to them. And that being the case, how could they accept her "I was shown" statements as really being from God. But unlike Joseph Smith (Mormon), Mary Baker Eddy (Christian Scientists) and Charles Russell (Jehovah Witnesses) they did find EGW to be Bibical in some of the right places. Places such as the Trinity, the full Diety of Christ etc. Now this is not a Bible issue, but one area where I have serious doubts with EGW is her claim that heaven is just beyond Orion. Orion is in THIS galaxy. In EGW and Bates' day, all we had was the earth, moon, sun and stars. And by that time most scientists knew the sun was just a close star. But they didn't know that some of those spots of light they could see with their telescopes where actually OTHER galaxies. And there are billions on them. Billions of other galaxies similar to our galaxy with billions of stars and trillions of miles accross. Think about it. Our galaxy is 150,000 light years wide and a light year is SIX TRILLION MILES. And there are billions of OTHER galaxies of similar size. Now that we know just how HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the universe is, well Orion is just down the street. That fact along with the view by many scientists who are Christian that God is outside of time, space and matter...or the universe if you will, makes me feel the Orion postion is just as wrong as EGW's postion on what causes volcanos. | ||
| Dennis Hokama (Dennis) member Username: Dennis Post Number: 546 Registered: 11-2003 |
I had a full wig once-- it was fine in cool weather, but on warm days it always gave me headaches. No more wigs for me. Besides modern wigs are light and airy, can you imagine the heat produced by wearing an old fashioned heavy wig? Ulrike, What is this game you are playing? Is the object to see if you can find EW saying something innocuous about wigs somewhere? Do you think the existence of innocuous statements refutes the nonsense she has written about wigs elsewhere? Also, regarding those internet statements that you found regarding masturbation, please supply those links. I have never heard such ridiculous things being said about masturbation before. So you need to show that these aren't nutty websites. | ||
| Jodi Thiessen (Jodi) Moderator Username: Jodi Post Number: 1494 Registered: 2-2002 |
From a quick search, I'd say it is probably from this site - why Ulrike hangs out there, I don't know... http://www.actionlove.com/cases/case9848.htm | ||
| John G. Mauro (Jackson) member Username: Jackson Post Number: 203 Registered: 3-2002 |
DEFICIENCY WITH VARIOUS PROBLEMS DEVELOPING, INCLUDING IMPOTENCE. "IT IS EVEN POSSIBLE, GIVEN THE IMPORTANCE OF ZINC FOR THE BRAIN, THAT 19TH CENTURY MORALISTS WERE CORRECT WHEN DR. DAVID HORROBIN, AN M.D. AND PH.D. FROM OXFORD UNIVERSITY, STATES: "THE AMOUNT OF ZINC IN SEMEN IS SUCH THAT ONE EJACULATION MAY GET RID OF ALL THE ZINC THAT CAN BE ABSORBED FROM THE INTESTINES IN ONE DAY. THIS HAS A NUMBER OF CONSEQUENCES. UNLESS THE AMOUNT LOST IS REPLACED BY AN INCREASED DIETARY INTAKE, REPEATED EJACULATION MAY LEAD TO A REAL ZINC THEY SAID THAT REPEATED MASTURBATION COULD MAKE ONE MAD!"--ZINC (VITABOOKS: ST. ALBANS, VERMONT, 1981), P. 8. THIS STATEMENT IS SIMILAR TO THAT MADE BY CARL C. PFEIFFER, PH.D., M.D., IN HIS BOOK ON ZINC. HE DECLARES: "WE HATE TO SAY IT, BUT IN A ZINC-DEFICIENT ADOLESCENT, SEXUAL EXCITEMENT AND EXCESSIVE MASTURBATION MIGHT PRECIPITATE INSANITY."--ZINC AND OTHER MICRO-NUTRIENTS (KEATS: NEW CANAAN, CONN., 1978), The practice of secret habits(masturbation} surely destroys the vital forces of the system. All unnecessary vital action will be followed by corresponding depression. Among the young the vital capital, the brain, is so severely taxed at an early age that there is a deficiency and great exhaustion, which leaves the system exposed to disease of various kinds. } |
